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How to Fire Proof Your Burning CX House

 

Exhausted and disappointed…and a bit baffled. That’s how I felt when I walked out of a trendy Indianapolis-area hotel last Sunday. I’d had maybe three hours of sleep and was facing a five hour drive home, which was plenty of time to reflect on my experience and how it could have gone better.

The hotel had lived up to its online image, looking very much like a Restoration Hardware catalog come to life, so we were pleased when we checked in just before Midnight. Long story short, by 4:00 a.m., I’d had multiple direct chats with rowdy hall-partiers, called the front desk twice, and not yet slept. When I checked out in the morning and recounted my experience to the guest services manager, he responded without averting his gaze from his computer screen, saying

“Well, I wasn’t here last night, so…”

What did I want him to do?

All too often, customers complain in an attempt at recompense, hoping for some form of compensation for their pain and suffering, so it stands to reason many employees would assume that is the end-game of any disgruntled customer. When an employee is not able or empowered to provide relief, he or she might feel powerless to offer anything other than an apology. But who walks away satisfied after receiving a tepid apology (or worse, a lethargic blame-dodge)?

Think of it from the perspective of a personal relationship; someone you know does you wrong and you decide to talk to them about it directly. Do you expect that person to pull out his wallet and offer you $50 for your suffering? Or did you hope that person would make a sincere commitment to avoid repeating the behavior, and then hold true to that promise? If an apology is the end of the interaction, with no commitment to improvement, why would I risk interacting with you again? Fool me twice, shame on me.

Translating that to business, customers with no emotional engagement with your brand have even less motivation to return. If they see your house is on fire, why would they run in? If you are not providing multiple channels by which employees can share customer feedback with appropriate leadership, if you aren’t taking that customer feedback and using it to improve operations and related processes, if you are not creating a culture of active improvement over apologies, your house is on fire and you’re letting it burn while you keep busy doing other things. If you are constantly offering refunds, price adjustments, or other forms of compensation to angry customers, your house is on fire and you just threw your wallet in for good measure.

Fire Proofing

Here are some steps that can help you move from house-fire to hero.

  1. Man the sirens. Establish communication channels for employees to relay customer feedback. Make it easy for your employees to capture feedback through sound files or quick transcription so they can relay it appropriately. Make it easy for your employees to do that. Email, a central listening post, an application made available at point of sale; find a solution that works for your business and your employees.
  2. Train your firefighters. Establish triage processes. Empower employees to resolve the immediate issue with the customer. Emphasize that customer feedback should be shared through the established communication channels. Enable employees to make a commitment to action, rather than an apology statement.
  3. Conduct the arson investigation. You’re receiving customer and employee feedback. Read it. Listen to it. Think about it. Make it a discipline to review customer feedback as frequently as possible.
  4. Identify the source of the fire. Think systems, not isolated interactions. The fire has already been put out. Now it’s time to think about the underlying systems, resources, and processes at play in creating that fire in the first place.
  5. Make your customer experiences fire-proof. Once you ascertain the root cause and impacted elements, follow through. Address what is broken, improve what can be improved, practice the discipline of keeping the commitment made to the customer.

If your brand promise does not involve repeatedly burning your customers, maybe give this approach a try. Reflecting on my own experience, had the guest services manager looked me in the eye, thanked me for voicing my experience, and expressed his commitment to sharing that feedback with his leadership so they could find better solutions going forward, I would have walked away smiling.

Verboten! Cross Cultural NPS Comparisons

I was prepared for the worst.

It was a short domestic flight in France so I thought I would gamble on EasyJet.

I had some experience with “ultra low cost” airlines in the states so I assumed that EasyJet would be the same. I braced for the worse: an old rickety airplane, upcharge for every small amenity with sparse and sub-par customer service.

I was pleasantly surprised. While they did charge for baggage and amenities they were very upfront about everything from booking forward. The plane was older, but clean and freshly painted. The customer service was helpful, knowledgeable, friendly, and polite. We even got “speedy” boarding because I was traveling with my family. All in all our EasyJet experience was much better than the majority of domestic carriers I experience regularly in the United States.

Does EasyJet do well in NPS? According to npsbenchmarks.com EasyJet ranks at a -16. Not good. This is far below the mainline carriers such as British Airways, Lufthansa, or other carriers In Europe. But when your point of comparison is US domestic providers they kick it out of the football arena (or at least through that net thing at the end of the field). Did they have a good day? Maybe. But based on my experience traveling both in the US and Europe, air travel in Europe is a dream compared to the United States.

According to the same site, all US providers are in the positive side of NPS with Southwest at 62, Jet Blue at 59, Delta at 41, United at 10, and American Airlines at 3. Would it be fair to conclude EasyJet has worse service than all the mainstream US providers? Based on NPS alone you might be tempted to say yes.

I would argue it is an unfair and unwise comparison. In fact, this is one of three fundamental reasons why cross-cultural comparisons of many attitudinal metrics (including NPS) are fraught with problems that make their comparison problematic.

Reason 1: Your Experience Sets the Baseline

First, as illustrated in my EasyJet example, your past experience will strongly influence the baseline for your future comparisons. If you have always had nearly flawless experience with shipping in the United States and Europe and then you move to a developing country, of course you are going to be disappointed. Reverse the situation and you will be ecstatic.

This baseline effect is one of the reasons why older car buyers are generally more pleased with the experience of purchasing a vehicle than younger buyers. I remember the youth-oriented Scion brand getting trounced in JD Power rankings when they launched. Their scores were much worse than even the Toyota parent brand. What was really strange was Toyota invested heavily in training and new customer friendly processes for a brand which was housed within Toyota dealerships. Was the Scion customer experience bad? Nope, they just focused on younger buyers who had different (higher) expectations.

This “experience” gap has been usefully exploited by startups such as Lemonade, Uber, Airbnb, and others to disrupt whole industries. Your baseline experience will influence your metrics. Are they real differences? They are to your customers. Can you compare them? You should do so with great care.

Reason 2: Lack of Language Equivalency

Another major issue is the concept of language equivalency. The word “good “ or “would recommend” in English does not always hedonically translate equivalently into other languages. Take for example the word “malo” in Spanish. I am not an expert in Spanish, but my understanding it is that is not good, but probably not as bad as “terrible” but probably not as good as “poor”. I am sure there are better examples, but you get the idea.

Even the most careful screening and testing of Likert based anchor points may not work out, as there may not be exact hedonic equivalents in other languages. There are also other subtle language differences that may introduce bias.

The NPS scale canon holds it should go from 0 (Definitely not recommend) to 10 (Definitely recommend) from low (on the left) to high (on the right). This is very good for Western participants, but what about other cultures? Many Middle Eastern languages go from top to bottom or even right to left. Some Asian languages also go from top to bottom. Does this influence how they may respond to a Western-based left to right approach? Probably. But there is still one even larger issue.

Reason 3: Cultural Response Bias

Different cultures tend to respond differently to Likert scale questions in general. For example, some cultures tend to be more generous in their grading, while others are harsher graders. In the research, I have conducted in the US (and from others globally) Hispanic responders tend to be much more lenient, (give higher scores), while Asian responders are much harsher graders. Is this due to the actual service provided? Nope. These are simply cultural differences in response style. This is further exasperated when we expand to look across different countries for some kind of global comparison. Can this be corrected statistically? Perhaps, but I have encountered no practitioners who has taken the trouble to do so (be happy to hear from you if you have!)

Another unhappy psychometric issue is this customer experience ratings are also impacted by where you live. Without fail, those who live in more densely populated areas are much harsher graders on nearly everything. This means that customers in Hong Kong will always score lower than those in Cheyenne, Wyoming even if the experience was identical.

What To Do Instead

So should you just give up hope comparing different regions of the world? While I would not recommend direct comparisons on NPS or other “NPS”-like measures there are many other practical options. After all, large multi-national organizations must have a way to understand the health of their customer experience globally and where to invest. The good news is there are many other ways by which you can judge where to allocate your time and effort rather than by simple (and misleading) direct comparisons between geographies.

Idea 1: Link Attitudes to Outcomes

A good way of doing this is by conducting Linkage Analysis within each geography. In linkage analysis you connect the exogenous attitudinal variables (perceptions of price, service, product, etc.) to business outcome variables. Since many times this is done at an aggregate level, it is useful to have mediator variables such as NPS used in the analysis. In this way you know what “score” is good by geography by connecting to actual business outcomes. What is important in Turkey may not be in Brazil. Knowing what drives outcomes is much more important than a simple index for comparison. While statistically sound, some front line operators might not trust the perceived voodoo of statistical analysis the underlies this approach. If this is an issue simpler approaches can also be applied.

Idea 2: Look at Improvement vs. Raw Scores

One very simple approach is to look at the amount of improvement a geographic unit has over a period of time. In this way you are not necessarily looking that the score by itself, but the improvement in the score over time. While not perfect (ceiling effects tend to put a damper on the party over time), it is a simple one to apply that everyone can understand.

Idea 3: Focus on Antecedent Behaviors

A third approach is to not focus on attitudinal measures at all, but focus on behaviors. How many cases were closed? How many action plans were implemented? How many complaints were registered? These are all antecedents to an attitudinal construct and usually are influential on business outcome variables (e.g., retention, share of wallet, etc.). While not perfect either, these behavioral measures are not plagued (as much) by the cultural issues.

Idea 4: Get to Language Sentiment

Probably the best approach if cross-cultural comparisons are needed is to start with the true voice of the customer: the verbatim. Build up native text taxonomies of positive and negative feedback in the native language. You can then build indices of the ratio to positive to negative relative the culture and language in which the experience is embedded. Many text analytics providers offer great solutions for this today. It will take a while for your stakeholder to get comfortable with this approach, but it has the added benefit of also being a bit more difficult to be the victim of the “coaching” customers to provide a specific answer. If you want to get really sophisticated hook this in with the linkage approach (Idea #1) and you have a very robust approach.

Practically Speaking

Country and global managers need to make comparisons. This is a business reality. If you really need to do these comparisons, I would strongly advocate a transition to one of four ideas above. At the very least, you should educate your management about the perils of cross-cultural NPS comparisons. Just like what is considered spicy in Calcutta is very different than what is considered spicy in Cincinnati, so too is your Customer Experience and how it is measured.

Maturity Models: Being Human vs. Being Mature

I came so close to dropping the ball on my husband’s birthday.

Let me tell you, he’s a guy who absolutely deserves to be celebrated on his day. However, it’s unfailingly difficult to think of a gift for my husband, who claims he already has everything he wants. With only two days to go and no ideas, I turned to my sister. She is one of those people with the gift of gifting. Not a Christmas nor birthday passes that she doesn’t make half of us cry with her thoughtful, insightful, personal presents. She was to be my savior in this birthday debacle; after five minutes on the phone lamenting my dilemma, she casually tossed out the most perfect idea and I ran with it. Some people were just born to delight others; they know how people want to be treated.

Models, models everywhere…

A colleague recently asked me about the customer experience maturity model and its relevance in the modern CX space. I recalled the numerous maturity models I’d participated in creating over the past two decades and found myself feeling, well, tired; tired of talking about it, tired of iterations, tired of heralds proclaiming the best new model, and tired of witnessing those models lead nowhere far too often.

Ten or fifteen years ago, I was working on the front line of designing and building huge, global customer feedback programs and simultaneously building out the business processes to support them. In those days, customer experience maturity models seemed so clever. Something in me embraced the science of understanding the difference between my small-scale forklift-manufacturing client and my Big 3 auto client, and their distinct approaches to customer experience, and the concept of maturity kind of worked. Since then, though, I have fallen out of love with the maturity model. Don’t get me wrong – I don’t hate it. I think the model can be useful in some cases. However, I think it’s long past time we got honest about something.

The model is academic; it’s rigid, linear, and theoretical. It implies that maturing is a sequential process that must be completed step-wise, mastering one level of maturity before passing through the gate to the next. Forrester’s model describes a “path to CX maturity.” Gartner’s model recommends that a company should “head for higher levels of customer experience maturity.” There is, inherent in this thinking, the notion of a system or set of processes, experiences, or decisions by which maturity can be acquired or achieved. If we do the right things, in the right order, and with the passage of time, we can bring about an organization’s CX enlightenment.

With all due respect to those who have authored models over the years, this is bullshit, and we all know it.

It seems many of us forgot or never knew that the model is a tool to help organizations understand how behaviors link to results at discrete points in time. Maturity isn’t what shifts organizations to a customer-centric culture; maturity isn’t what drives front-line employees to enjoy delighting customers; and maturity isn’t what attracts and retains customers who are loyal, life-long, promoters.

It’s not difficult to think of upstarts (Cards Against Humanity, Trader Joe’s, Tesla, 1-800-FLOWERS) who were born with a knack for customer experience and can delight customers without tensing a muscle. It’s also easy to recall decades-old brands that provided exceptional experiences in the past, but are lagging now (Carmax, Applebees). But if it’s not maturity, what is it?

The Right People Doing the Right Things

In my experience, great customer experience reflects the extent to which a company identifies, creates, and fulfills opportunities for extraordinary CX. The companies who practice this principle exceptionally well are those with access to at least one person who has a high degree of empathy, insight, and creativity.

Empathic, creative, inspired people:

  • Reach into the customer journey, experience, and feedback to discern what matters;
  • Listen to employees and work to understand their challenges in delivering on the brand promise;
  • Stand back from the noise and ask what CX & EX opportunities are unmet;
  • Scope up and down through this holistic insight to prioritize opportunities and a recommend a plan for action;
  • Keep it simple.

If you’re not already working with a person or team who can drive your CX strategy based on these talents and insights, hire one. Stop reading this blog post and do it now. Find a human being who is particularly good at being human, who understands people and can analyze information, who is probably a fantastic gift-giver, and hire them.

Regardless of what a company is doing today, no matter the subjective maturity ranking, any company can see rapid benefit from the presence of an empathic, creative, inspired individual or team if it is willing to commit the necessary resources. Look at the influencers you follow on LinkedIn, look at the disruptors and those companies that raise the CX bar – what do they have in common? It isn’t maturity, it’s leaders who understand what customers want and how they want to be treated. Then they put customers first, trusting that shareholder value will follow.

It isn’t about maturity. It’s much more spiritual than that, you see. It’s about perspective and willingness, inspiration and resourcefulness, honest self-appraisal and actually putting customers first – not just saying you do. Most likely, most of what you need is already available to you. Perhaps someone has told you that you must pass through the next three levels of maturity and the Candy Cane forest before you reach the summit.  Perhaps you’re drowning in articles about CX and wondering how buying another [trendy solution] will help you delight your customers. Chances are, you just need a fresh perspective and a high quality human being. I might even know some folks who can help.

 

The Benefits of Promoting Curiosity in Children

From NPR’s KQED

Jamie Jirout was not the sort of student who simply took a textbook at its word. In her first semester of college, she asked her psychology professor if she could assist in the professor’s research. Jirout’s interest wasn’t fueled by the fact that she found the coursework convincing — quite the opposite.

“I’d read something in the textbook and then I’d think, that doesn’t really make sense with what I’ve seen, how do they know that?” she recalls. She wanted to reconcile that gap and so, threw herself into research.

Her quest for answers has propelled her career to the present day. Jirout is now an assistant professor of education at the University of Virginia, where one of her primary research interests is studying curiosity in the classroom.

That research is sorely needed. Despite the centrality of curiosity to all scientific endeavors, there’s a relative dearth of studies on the subject itself. Fortunately, scientists such as Jirout and others are actively unraveling this concept and, in the process, making a convincing case that we can and should teach young minds to embrace their inquisitive nature.

More here

How to Make a Big CX Impact for a Small Investment

“Ok, then we can make a man-deal,” Peter said smiling broadly with his meaty hand outstretched to me.

I had closed a deal with an intimating large Russian man on my home in Southern California. Upon finding an issue with the water heater, I promised to replace it quickly after close without going through all the paperwork again.

“Sure Peter, no problem,” I said and shook his hand.

Every day large transactions are made on the basis of trust. Trust is the basis of any human relationship and it is fragile, especially in the infancy of the relationship.

Peter took a chance and trusted me.

I came through on my “man-deal” and to ensure a smooth finish on this short relationship, I decided to make a small investment.

After tending to the water heater, the last thing I left in the modest house in the middle of a hardwood floor was a single bottle of mid-range priced Champagne.

It was a small token of my gratitude and an expense that helped mitigate any further issues in the transaction. The effect was stunning. Peter seemed more excited by this double-digit investment, then the six-digit investment he made in my house.

It’s the Little Things

Small gestures go a long way in getting relationships off to a good start. Organizations good at customer experience recognize that the “dating” part of the journey is the most precarious and invest accordingly. You don’t want to squander your large investment in sales and marketing in on-boarding a customer just to lose them in the first cycle. Here are some ideas for your organization that are cheap and effective.

Acknowledgement

Cameron Smith, a very successful recruiter who counts as his client the top CPG and retailers in the world, prides himself on personally responding to every single email he receives from a job seeker. This seems trivial, but Cam has about a dozen or more folks working for him, so I have to believe his inbox must overflow daily. Cam is very established and, at this point in his career, has no downside to not responding to some college grad looking for his first gig. Nonetheless, he responds to every email consistently. This little token goes a long way in building empathy and trust and Cam’s enviable social network.  We can learn from guy like Cam. Take a minute and get back to folks whether an applicant, a client, or prospect. It is a simple way to build trust and long term relationships.

 The Letter

How you respond also can have a very big impact. I recently received a hand written thank-you letter for a bit of pro bono work I did. It made my day and I told many of my friends and colleagues about it. This special touch costs less than fifty cents and a few minutes and goes a long way in building relationships. It says, “you are not a number, you are special and I appreciate it.”

If your penmanship is horrid (like mine) there are other ways to add the personal touch beyond a hand written ‘thank you’. Before moving to Arkansas we purchased all of our furniture from a modern boutique store close by. The elderly hipster proprietor had an ancient Smith-Corona typewriter which he used to crank out thank you notes on parchment paper. Amongst the cacophony of inauthentic direct mail and flyers infesting my mailbox, it was great to get something as unique as a type written thank-you note on old school Frank Lloyd Wright inspired letter head. It probably took him just a few minutes a day and the pay off is intangible. It is craft. It is unique.

A Call

Follow-up calls are great. Really good automotive dealerships know this and make it a personal one from the salesperson. The use of “videograms” delivered to your inbox also make a big impact. This too, takes no more than a few minutes to do, and can go a long way in creating a lasting relationship. It is also an opportunity to uncover any problems or questions a customer might have.

Here’s a challenge if you are a big organization; once a year have every one of your employees call and thank three or four customers. This connects your employees with your customers and demonstrates that you are serious as a brand about customer experience. Customer experience is not the job of a person or department. Everyone should be involved.

Early Assistance

Ever buy a new gizmo and eagerly open it only to learn there are 23 steps to complete before you can use it?  That feeling sucks. To get mitigate this feeling and get customers off to a good start, many companies put customers into tiers, not according to their value, but how long they have been a customer. They invert the usual value curve, putting newcomers at the front. Software providers are particularly adroit in this strategy, labeling customers ‘freshman’, ‘sophomore’, and so forth according to how long they have been a customer. The reasoning is this; if we onboard people really well, they won’t leave. They know from journey mapping that switching costs are low early on and if they can get people into a nominal decision-making re-purchase mode the investment pays off handsomely.

Payroll provider ADP is particularly adept at this strategy. They manage to accomplish this personalized service at scale. As a customer, a dedicated representative helps you through the first few payroll cycles. Once things seem to be running smoothly you then have access to shared help desk. I have had to call a few times, and each time I get through and get the help I need quickly.

A Small Gift

Making a big purchase can be very stressful. You want to be assured you might the right call.   This is a big opportunity to make a small investment in assuring your customers they did the right thing. I chose a bottle of Champagne. Others chose items more consistent with their brand. A friend of mine related how motorcycle manufacturer Harley Davidson has a particularly good on-boarding package after his purchase. They sent him a scale model of the motorcycle he just bought along with a video, and official documentation about its origin and specifications. He quickly used these materials to create  a small shrine to this new Harley in his garage. On-boarding packages, whether for new clients or employees, mitigates any cognitive dissonance reassuring the person that they made the right choice and reinforces the brand.

Keep it Simple

Like any relationship, early impressions matter. Make sure you are making a positive first impression by making some small investments in recognizing and helping your customers early on. These small acts have a disproportional impact that you will continue to pay off far into the future.

The Secret to Finding True Customer Insight

“I guess we just made a big mistake,” Jonah said.

He looked directly at me for a moment and then downward at his wrinkled hands collecting his thoughts as the sun was setting, casting long shadows across the kitchen table.

His wife reached out and laid her hands protectively on his while Jonah looked me directly in the eye.  They both had something to say. The retired couple were visibly upset but were doing their best to keep their composure.

“We are of modest means,” he started.

As he began his tale I could see tears swelling in his partner’s eyes. Jonah was sitting broomstick straight stoic, his bubbling rage barely constrained behind his dark blue eyes. She sat silent, interjecting on occasion. They both had a message to send. I was to be their messenger. I was there to be their confessor and offer, perhaps, some small degree of absolution.

In this in-home interview, we weren’t talking about a loved one lost. We weren’t talking about a swindled retirement savings or some form of nefarious flim-flam that convinced Jonah and his wife to buy brackish real estate in Florida. We were discussing an automotive purchase, about which they now had very serious misgivings.

“We just believed in them…we feel so betrayed….” she said.

This was very real for them, and in their presence I felt their worry. I experienced their remorse. I felt their pain. I walked away from the interview moved, a bit sad and much wiser. What survey could have captured this?

An undergraduate professor I once had related how he couldn’t conduct surveys because he thought them impersonal and even insulting to participants. He judged them, on the whole, disrespectful and indignant. At the time I dismissed him as being an overly sensitive neo-hippy lacking monetary drive who should just go back to his yurt and carve a new bong out of reclaimed barn wood.

I have recently started to rethink my judgment of the good professor’s position.

Much of the research industry has long viewed the respondent as a commoditized, and largely free, raw ingredient in which to make insight sausages. The ideas being we could just zap enough people in a panel to fill our quotas and off we go. A filled quota is a filled quota after all.

As much as the thought of the mechanization of queuing people to answer your inquiries is appealing, I would encourage you to think about who exactly are taking these long boring surveys.

I have become deeply suspicious of some panels that prod their herds to complete some really poorly constructed “self service” surveys through incentives. Flat-liners, speeders, repeaters, and plain old cheaters are prevalent. There are even software programs that will cheat for you that are available for purchase. A.I. is let lose upon the untended yearning fields of uncompleted questionnaires to do what humans are loathe to do.

As a Professor at the University of Arkansas, I asked my students to describe what taking survey was like using only one word.

“Annoying” “boring” and “pointless” led the list.

In designing surveys, I encourage those same students to ask themselves “would I fill this out”? If not, you should think about a redesign…or different approach completely.

Surveys have their place. I don’t think they are going anywhere soon, but we should become much better at choosing our audiences and creating better and engaging designs.

Good data comes at a price. That price is investing the time to really care about what people have to say and listening in ways that they want to communicate. To not view them as the raw grist for the insight mill to process.

Every day millions of posts are made on Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter. Much of this communication is the expression opinions about people, product, places, and things. Why do people share these things? Because they are provided a forum in which they feel heard. A forum, in which some small way, their voices matter. This empowers people.

So let’s not dump surveys altogether, but become more attuned to the people you are talking to. They are real people with real problems, fears, and dreams. Be with them as a partner and confident, not as some indifferent corporate scientist.

The key to gaining great insight can be found in respectful and careful listening. It is about engaging in deliberate empathy. This is where real insight is uncovered; the ability to see the world from the viewpoint of the people you are interested in understanding.

You will get so much more from this approach even in smaller sample sizes than some sterile panel survey that goes out to god knows who or what. Keep it real. Keep it human.

The fundamentals of consumer research are sound. Companies are still very interested in what their customers have to say. Customers are very interested in sharing their opinions and experiences.

The trick is to listen to your customers in a way they want to be heard. Let them know you care. Be their messenger. Respect them. And if possible, be their advocate.

The Future According to the EFM Giants

Over the last 30 years, CX has also seen radical change, bringing it far from its humble market research origins. To better understand this still nascent offshoot of market research, CuriosityCX, in collaboration with Michigan State University MMR program, interviewed a dozen prominent tech leaders in the CX space from ,Clarabridge, Market Force, Satmetrix, InMoment, Service Management Group, Customerville, Confirmit, Responsetek, MaritzCX, and Qualtrics.

Check out the complete article here co-authored by Michigan State University’s Brian Keehner.

 

Product Design is CX

Product design plays a huge role in creating a great customer experience.  While bad design is easy to spot, we often take for granted really great design in our every day world.  It’s not until someone turns what we take for granted on its head that we can appreciate great design of everyday objects.  That’s exactly what Katerina Kamprani did with her project entitled The Uncomfortable.  Trigger warning to those with OCD…this will drive you insane!